Dan Gonzales is in charge of Product Management at Izotope. In this episode, we chat with Dan about RX7, the noise reduction suite from Izotope that is changing the vernacular of the industry. The term “RX it” is fast becoming Audio Engineer speak for “run some Noise Reduction”.
We chat about its development, its uses, and many of the other goodies that come with the suite. We also delve into the big question of whether or not Voice artists should deliver their work with Noise Reduction and the like, and we cover off a few new uses Radio is coming up with for the “Music Rebalance” tool that comes in the box.
Don’t forget to like our facebook page and if you have a question of your own you’d like us to answer, post it there and we will answer it as best we can.
You’ll also find us on the web at theproaudiosuite.com
The Pro Audio Suite Podcast copyright George Whittam, Andrew Peters, Robert Marshall & Darren Robertson.
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this is a test of the emergency
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broadcast system of high tech for sound
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[Music]
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let’s go
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welcome to the pro audio suite a podcast
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for audio and voiceovers professionals
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Facebook the pro audio suite podcast
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[Music]
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now let’s get on with the show from Los
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Angeles George Wickham from Chicago
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Robert Marshall from Sydney Australia
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Rob oh and from sunny Melbourne and
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repeaters this is the pro audio suite
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welcome to another Pro audio suite this
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is an isotope rx-7 special we have on
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the line Dan console is raisa taupe how
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are you Dan excellent on a train in
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Chicago via source connect now is Robert
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Marshall can i Robert I can’t believe
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you a train this is bizarre and of
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course up in Sydney is Rob oh it’s got
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to be a world first doesn’t it
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podcasting live from a train surely I
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think so
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and we’re still waiting for George I
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know George’s got a couple of
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appointments building home studios and
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stuff like that so he hopefully will
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join us soon but the interesting thing
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about Robert being on a train is that no
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one will hear the background noise
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because I love use direct 7 it’ll be all
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gone so last week I was talking to a guy
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Jeff Watkinson who’s a Melbourne based
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audio engineer who Robert was also
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talking to about source connect he was
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talking about isotope and using spectral
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repair that’s one of yours that’s part
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of a rx-7 suite indeed
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yep now he he’s like he’s a chap of my
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vintage he was completely and utterly
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blown away how it worked he couldn’t
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believe how good it was can you explain
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exactly how it works
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chains too but yeah the way it works is
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the spectral processing inside of our
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plugins usually means that these entire
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spectrum is divided up into many many
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many many many many bands right and the
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way they kind of I guess it’s a the
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Wizards did their magic
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they can actually break the signal down
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into so many granular parts that we can
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actually make decisions on each one of
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those bands so for example a more recent
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example like their spectral processing
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is the spectral DES module where it you
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can like divide the signal into like 72
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bands and then it can actually know and
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intelligently find s’s in the music and
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just remove them automatically you can
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actually and when it isolates those s’s
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you can actually push it and shape it
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towards a sound like white noise pink
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noise or brown eyes when it comes to
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spectral processing it’s really like
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this granularity that you can apply to a
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signal that is unlike anything else that
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has been designed in for this type of
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media and it was built from the ground
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up at isotope by an in-house guy named
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Lexie Luke and shout out to Alexa he’s
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the he’s been there for quite a while
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and has been developing this stuff for a
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long time so yeah it’s it’s a really
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complex subject but it basically divides
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a signal into tiny tiny tiny little
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parts that then become controllable
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however you please spectral repair is an
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example where we can isolate specific
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things within the actual spectrogram and
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remove them augmenting replace them look
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at the area around it kind of build
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stuff to hide stuff it’s it’s like an
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incredibly complex set of tools but the
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end result is you can take something
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like a clap or a whistle or a train or
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for example and completely completely
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remove it from behind someone’s speaking
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or a dialogue track or or some sort of
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some sort of other set body or any
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location audio so it’s a really powerful
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tool and it’s a new way to kind of I
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guess you could say separate elements of
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audio in ways nobody’s ever seen so yeah
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it’s pretty it’s pretty much like
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Photoshop yeah I was gonna say the same
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thing yeah
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yeah it’s like Photoshop for audio yeah
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like the way I’ve used it before is like
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someone who has a chain in the audio
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signal and then you can select a signal
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that’s just after the chain and sort of
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copy that that just that band of
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frequencies so you
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grab the moment just after that still
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has the background noise that you want
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and paste it wait later or that chain is
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and maybe you can’t do the same thing
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with a bottom of a chain as much because
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there’s some other signal in there you
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can eliminate it almost completely if
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you know especially the high frequency
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content of it and replace it with
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something that is needs to be there so
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that’s part of the background that would
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have been there it’s kind of amazing the
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best example I’ve seen is the guys in
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the walking dead
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they have like a very specific precept
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for cyclists because they’re always
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they’re always in the south and Georgia
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recording outside you know means so
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whenever you pull up their set the
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location audio on one of the walking
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dead scenes you just see this like
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frequency band and it’s just all cicadas
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and they use specter of a specific
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preset that eliminates that cicada sound
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it’s unbelievable yeah that’s really
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funny that’s great it’s I’ve got to say
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it is saved my butt many a time with
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especially with sort of live in inverted
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commas live recordings and things like
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that way you can’t go back and say let’s
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do another take it’s brilliant
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absolutely brilliant I think it was one
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of like those like electro bands try
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remember the name but they made a song
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and the spectrogram was like the face of
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the singer so if you if you just analyze
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the song the spectrogram was an actual
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image no freely we’ve had people were
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that people actually build in Easter
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eggs into their music and you only see
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them when you pull them into a
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spectrogram so for example I think it
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was definitely a joke obviously but I
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remember like there was some metal band
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that they went into the spectrogram or
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someone did and they used one of the
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paint tools or one of the tools to like
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use paint 666 into the audio file and
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then they just you know they made
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released it so if you’re ever someone
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who pulled in the audio into the
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spectrograph in our exes if you could
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actually see that painted into the
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spectrogram it’s just like really guys
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like
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it’s actually more doable than you
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hinged it’s taking those days of
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subliminal messages to a whole new level
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isn’t it yes if you like if you load in
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any Beatles songs into the spectrogram
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do you see any crazy images or yeah did
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I think with masking or anything like
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that yeah to spread the blood of the
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innocents not seriously it’s it’s it’s
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an amazing tool and yeah that’s really
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good news this Photoshop or audio that’s
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that’s really the what it comes down to
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the new way it’s a way to visualize
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audio in 3d in a Tooting space right
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because you get an amplitude you get in
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time and you’re getting frequency
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although on visualization yeah yeah yeah
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Gary number an app called medicine no no
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I’m like dating myself so it was like
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kind of like very late 90s early 2000s
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and it was essentially you had very
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Photoshop like tools you can create
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worlds and create all kinds of like
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optical things and then out of those
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like maybe you could turn an image into
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an oscillator because it’s just you know
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repeating and it was a whole synthesizer
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that was based on these spectrograms as
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one of its ways of generating complex
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waveform just a little bit and then
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looks around is there a website for it I
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don’t know I just I just needed medicine
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since and sorry I googled medicines and
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medicines six came up and it looks like
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something that should be it looks like
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something the guys on the splice should
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be so um you know me incredible for just
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249 dollars it can be yours
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they go bargain and half the price now
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my question is as someone who is not an
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audio engineer which is quite obvious to
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anyone that’s been listening to this
09:03
podcast recently acquired rx-7 standard
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the only thing I’ve kind of used so far
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is a mouth D click which is very handy
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but for someone like me who’s you know a
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voiceover guy works at home what do you
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see as the benefits using our Excel
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and would it annoy the crap out of an
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audio engineer who receives a file from
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me well I think one of the biggest
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things that a lot of when you’re passing
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audio files between two type two people
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especially an audio engineer especially
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someone who maybe is an experienced in
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in that kind of domain I think the best
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thing about our ex honestly for for
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someone who is not an audio engineer is
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when they open it up and they just the
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presets are unbelievable open up the
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presets and for any particular module
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and we have specifically designed those
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to work on just about any type of
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material and the best part about this is
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if you actually open up the editor and
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you start and you start working through
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the modules you’ll notice that there’s
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one called module chain module chain
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isn’t even more powerful it’s kind of
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like it’s kind of like one of these
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preset kind of module preset kind of
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signal chains where you can take you can
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pick a pulling preset and it’ll pull up
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any signal chain you want for any
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specific scenario so you can find all
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different types of scenarios in there
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for your use cases then when we got to
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our X 7 we decided to go after kind of
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what you’ve been seeing in all of our
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mixing and mastering plugins we just
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have been picking up a notch and go
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after assistive technology so we
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introduced for para system and what
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repair assistant does is basically acts
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as your own
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it kind of just asses it acts as a way
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to suggest specific settings for the
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program material that you’re working on
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so I think for beginners and for anybody
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who’s getting into our X those are three
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places to start and it’s kind of the
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evolution of how we started building out
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kind of our X for people to use presets
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module training and then we eventually
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got to repair system but it’s funny you
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bring up a thing that the thing about
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kind of pissing off another an engineer
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we hear a lot of people talk about
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dialogue or voiceover or just generally
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any music being to our X you know I mean
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like having a sound where it’s just way
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to our X because people don’t
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people don’t really understand the
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concept of noise removal and kind of
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corrective processing they kind of
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overdo it right so I think the best
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advice to be just try and figure out
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what is good enough and or what is maybe
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50% 80% of the stuff bought will be okay
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to hand off to an audio engineer and let
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them take care of the rest
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don’t try and do the whole thing I mean
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because I think if he’s trying over safe
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and overcorrects you’re generally going
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to be giving something to someone and
12:06
they’re going to say to themselves how
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can I undo everything that you just did
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to this audio it’s that’s kind of it’s
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usually what happens what we hear from a
12:15
lot of people so I think presets repair
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assistant module chain and then I also
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believe
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take it easy on the repair because it
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can you can overdo it and I think those
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are some good ways to approach IREX for
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the first time over our ex-knight might
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become the next chair thing like with
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the over auto-tuned sort of thing you
12:33
know that might be the next next hit
12:35
someone might have the next teeth but
12:36
you know over instead of over auto-tune
12:39
over our exit and see what happens yeah
12:42
it’s interesting that our X has become
12:45
part of the vernacular of audio
12:47
engineering well that’s great far as its
12:48
hope isn’t it it’s fantastic it’s pretty
12:50
awesome every I remember that when I
12:54
when I first started out and I was
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working in a studio that had no noise
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and I was like oh my god this is
13:00
incredible
13:00
and one of the engineers had disturbed
13:04
it internally like no music or something
13:07
because at first was like that that same
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thing where I was like this is amazing
13:11
it can do no wrong and people for a
13:13
while were like remastering things and
13:16
just like being all using the the life
13:18
out of them in the sense you know it’s
13:20
funny you think about what dinner is it
13:22
was like what could be in there a little
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bit yeah yeah it goes away if it’s if
13:27
it’s not like pointed out and made made
13:29
obvious it’s like some noise is like
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better left alone and some approaches
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yeah so would say Robert there’s a
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question for you so if say for instance
13:37
our you know a voice guy was sending in
13:40
boys girl was sending you a file and
13:42
they they had rx-7 and they decided to
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do a bit of mouth Dee click
13:48
maybe a bit of some kind of other noise
13:51
removal’ how would you feel about
13:52
getting that file
13:53
well I now have like elements or
13:56
something I don’t have the full RS so if
13:59
it was better than what I’ve got great
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but if I hear it I would rather
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basically like I would rather have a
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voice over not even Kate whatever
14:09
residual noises in the room if speaker
14:11
that’s like a really low level expander
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I would rather be everything yeah yeah
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but they said there’s a thing though but
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like if you if you’re like someone like
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me you’re always concerned that someone
14:23
at the other end is gonna think that you
14:25
all set up your so you know you’re
14:28
always trying to cover in them you know
14:30
pretty up you know polish the turd as
14:32
they say I don’t know I didn’t I don’t
14:34
know about Robert but I would say two
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things here I’d say look I’d say two
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things I’ve from my point of view
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firstly I don’t think a click or a pop
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or you know a mouth noise or anything
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like that is going to necessarily make
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me think you’ll set up his and
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secondly probably being a little more
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old-school in the way I edit rather than
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turn to the plug-in first I still always
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try to cut it out
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you know if first and then if then if
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that doesn’t work I’ll turn to the
15:04
plug-in I don’t know whether everybody
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works that way maybe not but I grew up
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in the tape days so I guess that’s my
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first interim instinct is to to cut
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first to process second and only if
15:14
necessary so I’m so yes so leaving it in
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to me wouldn’t be an issue yeah like you
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be honest I’ve found that hey I don’t
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run into enough crappy audio that can’t
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be just capturing properly and then most
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of what I need to clean up you know like
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it starts out with everything then it’s
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maybe an expander and then it’s like
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essentially whatever like broadband
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noise reduction is like at hand there’s
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a few of hum that they’re like bundled
15:45
into things so those just kind of reduce
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the remaining of what’s necessary and
15:51
even though you know there’s like
15:53
something better out there it’s not
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necessarily like you can’t solve the
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problem for a lot of things you know
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that that said
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all in one module I think he was talking
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about like a chain so usually my annoys
16:06
your luncheon is in that order and those
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are all different plugins in date and
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then there was silence I just put on our
16:23
eggs get rid of the get rid of the
16:24
questions we’re talking about that
16:29
before we started recording that you
16:31
know that isotope should come up with a
16:32
plug-in that sort of separates the stems
16:35
when you’re recording three or four
16:36
people on on one track and that that
16:39
month and then once you’ve done that one
16:41
then the next one after that would be
16:42
the remove the question plug-in so
16:46
just goes through your podcasts and gets
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rid of all the duds and just leaves the
16:50
good ones we have a very short podcast
16:54
[Laughter]
16:58
are they guy that’s right yeah yeah
17:01
there’s a lot of pretty ways in which
17:02
I’ve thought about solutions for the
17:04
various things that people do I remember
17:09
when I was doing just a little bit of
17:10
voice editing at a it was a studio here
17:15
in Boston a long time ago and I would
17:18
watch the producer she was marking up
17:21
scripts but she was marking up she was
17:23
marking them up as she was you know like
17:25
you would with anything where the
17:26
mistakes would happen in all this I’m
17:28
sitting here thinking like ten years
17:29
later I’m like man like imagine if you
17:31
could just figure out when a bad happens
17:35
I mean you can see when like someone is
17:37
redoing the line and like it just knows
17:39
that and it can it can say hey I think
17:42
this is a take on bad so you know like
17:44
we’ve never removed it for you and or we
17:46
marked it for you so that you can you
17:48
know you can move forward it’s just
17:49
there’s so many different scenarios in
17:51
which this type of software can be going
17:53
you know I mean and we’re kind of every
17:55
day thinking about all those scenarios
17:58
and how we can solve problems for people
17:59
but it’s it’s not just as simple as you
18:02
know waving a magic wand I wish it was
18:04
but it’s not yet so that would that
18:07
would be a really interesting one though
18:08
are you guys diving into AI yeah yeah we
18:12
are oh yeah that’s where it’s like you
18:15
know you can
18:16
yeah that’s when everybody’s gonna lose
18:18
their jobs no I I see what you’re saying
18:30
yeah we’re data it’s it’s a it’s a bit
18:32
of a complex subject but you know the
18:35
thing about data is that it’s really
18:37
useless without some sort of human
18:39
interaction you know and and it’s really
18:41
useless without really having a core set
18:44
of assumptions around what you intend to
18:45
do with that data
18:46
you know I mean so it’s like we can
18:48
collect as much data as we want on on as
18:50
much stuff as we want but like at the
18:53
end of the day it has to like all equals
18:55
something and get out to something that
18:57
like makes sense and solves problems for
18:59
our users so it’s a super complex thing
19:02
and I still am even like I’ve been
19:04
working at I still for like two and a
19:05
half years now I’m still trying to wrap
19:07
my head around the complexities behind a
19:09
data collection you know yeah to think
19:12
that the thing that I always come back
19:13
to Dan the thing that always occurs to
19:15
me is you know people talk about you
19:18
know I with AI and audio and all that
19:21
sort of stuff that you know all this
19:22
stuff will you know one day be able to
19:24
happen happen in the Box you know let’s
19:26
say that iZotope come up with a plug-in
19:28
that can identify the go takes and put
19:31
it all and maybe even edit it all
19:33
together but it’s still got to get into
19:35
the box in the first place and and
19:37
that’s the thing that will that’s the
19:39
thing that can never be replaced you
19:40
know that we’re experienced and talent
19:43
will always still be needed to get it in
19:45
the Box first
19:46
right but what’s what’s the Box that you
19:48
guys made it’s like set it on the table
19:51
and it’s got a badass preamp and
19:53
microphone in it the Sapphire am I
19:55
getting the name wrong I think oh no no
19:57
you’re talking about spire yeah yeah
20:01
yeah yeah spire is a is our first
20:04
Hardware our first truly like hardware
20:07
device that is essentially a it’s a
20:11
recording studio all-in-one you got two
20:13
preamps on the back designed by grace
20:15
phantom power it’s got a wireless
20:18
connection to both Android and iPhone so
20:22
you can actually you know record
20:24
recording to it it’s got battery life so
20:26
you can take a rather you want and
20:29
the audio gets recorded wirelessly to
20:32
your phone into our spire app and then
20:35
it also gets recorded onto the internal
20:37
memory that we have on the device using
20:39
a directional microphone on the very
20:41
front so you can basically put the
20:43
device anywhere in front of the source
20:44
and stand however where you want it it’s
20:47
a super easy and fun experience for
20:49
taking like going from that like moment
20:52
of I have an idea to recording it within
20:55
seconds um it’s actually it’s a truly
20:58
innovative kind of form factor and we’re
21:00
really excited about it I hadn’t seen
21:02
that well these are the AES conventional
21:04
Taysom and yeah I do there’s a there’s a
21:08
company that makes a it basically
21:10
records in their own form a pants like
21:12
something like a 16 order you know
21:16
binaural signal I think I’m not sure
21:19
exactly but it records in each one
21:20
record 16 channels and the example is
21:24
crazy where they’re recording with this
21:26
like big tetrahedral or whatever however
21:29
you capsules are on it and then after
21:32
the fact they can amazingly focus the
21:34
signal on you know everybody around so
21:38
you can just have a bunch of people
21:39
standing around this one microphone and
21:41
then depending on how you tune that
21:44
microphone the decoding of it you can
21:46
focus almost entirely on the guy on the
21:48
left but almost entirely impersonal in
21:50
front yeah I think I know Chuck and I
21:52
was called Xillia and it’s a black orb
21:54
that has like nine capsules in it right
21:56
yeah yeah right I think there’s there’s
21:59
a little aspect of it that’s a little
22:01
bit consumer II like I think it’s like
22:03
you know not balanced there’s some other
22:05
stuff like that but still pretty amazing
22:07
like in the concept I think it’s like
22:10
the concept is really cool if you think
22:12
about like where that kind of what
22:14
they’re driving out there they’re
22:15
driving at like single form-factor can
22:17
separate all the instruments in the room
22:19
and that’s what’s really close to the
22:22
idea behind our music rebalance feature
22:24
inside of our x7 or you can just take
22:27
any track and regardless of what state
22:29
it’s in remove and or augment and or
22:33
rebalance the vocals the drums the bass
22:36
anything else in the mix you know it’s
22:39
it’s it’s a really nice it’s a cool idea
22:41
I think it’s priced
22:42
like thousand-dollar stuff which is
22:44
pretty fine so pretty it’s a pretty
22:46
expensive here we go yeah other things
22:49
cool that’s awesome
22:50
it’s the unbaked the cake thing I always
22:53
thought it’d be interesting to marry
22:54
that idea of the multi capital
22:57
microphone there’s some local like stick
23:00
it anywhere and have a reasonable shot
23:02
it eventually having a good recording
23:04
even though you’ve been fairly careless
23:06
about your mic plates when they move
23:08
them so that’s a dream man that’s a
23:10
dream being able to just capture
23:12
anything and work with it with any
23:13
quality and have it sound amazing all
23:15
the time yeah we’re always having big
23:18
ideas about that isotope were always
23:19
trying to figure out how to deliver
23:21
those types of experiences to our
23:23
customers yeah is there any ideas but
23:28
that’s a really interesting idea though
23:29
to have a microphone with multiple
23:31
capsules that are spaced out that you
23:35
can you know sort of cherry-pick or you
23:37
know add the two together or all three
23:39
together or yeah yeah it’s actually a
23:42
very old idea the sound field is the
23:44
first microphone that did it with a
23:46
tetrahedron using the same technology in
23:51
Reverse I saw this as NAB was a speaker
23:54
that was like a sphere that had a whole
23:57
bunch of speakers on it and so what they
23:59
had was a guy playing guitar and they
24:02
invited you to walk around the guy
24:04
playing guitar and then they switched
24:07
over to the same recording basically
24:10
coming out that speaker and he walked
24:12
around his speaker and it was like the
24:15
guitar was in the room did he walk
24:17
behind it and heard it change a little
24:19
bit yeah that’s really cool
24:21
well it’s really cool there’s like a
24:23
point-source becoming 3d it was like the
24:25
whole process in Reverse so was it like
24:27
an anechoic speaker it was it was a
24:31
tetrahedral or more than that speaker
24:33
will call me or I didn’t have I don’t
24:35
know if it had one firing down but it
24:37
had like one on the top and probably
24:39
like three across the front and try
24:41
remember they were all evenly spaced
24:44
yeah when you close your eyes there was
24:47
a guitar player in the room even though
24:49
it was a speaker and it was different
24:50
than like oh I’m looking them’s like my
24:52
speaker because it was three dimensional
24:55
compared to even your
24:56
stereo system which is still really fast
25:00
QT man let’s clear I do have a question
25:08
for you Dan and I sent you an email
25:10
about this with rx-7 I got our 87
25:14
standard as I mentioned before and when
25:16
I put it into
25:18
Wavelab 9.5 if I put it in the stack it
25:24
intermittently makes
25:26
Wavelab close so it’s telling me that
25:31
something is not talking to something
25:33
correctly is that an issue you’ve come
25:36
across before
25:36
not particularly mostly because a lot of
25:40
our hosts I would say like the majority
25:43
of the people using rx are mainly in
25:46
ProTools and I believe Nuendo is a very
25:51
small percentage of it but our largest
25:53
dog that we support today is Pro Tools
25:55
and look on Omaha you are actually in
25:58
Wavelab so if it doesn’t fall within
26:00
like our supported host chances are that
26:03
there could be some weirdness with the
26:04
way our plugins interact with the host
26:06
yeah but I haven’t I haven’t actually
26:08
seen this person have actually heard of
26:11
that happening within a wave lab so dig
26:15
into that more but my my bet is that
26:16
when we are building the products we are
26:19
testing and dogs that are most used for
26:21
the actual hosts sorry the most dogs
26:24
that are these are being used with them
26:25
so that’s something through a specific
26:29
way in which Wavelab works with the
26:30
plugins yes I do know a lot of Meece
26:32
music guys use Steinberg wave lab for
26:35
mastering so I would have thought that
26:38
would have been if you were mastering
26:40
I’m kind of guessing that that’s where
26:41
you probably use some of your plugins I
26:43
could be wrong but does that make sense
26:46
yeah you’d be surprised at the the
26:49
ratios of DWS like how little actual
26:53
mastering software is being used by a
26:56
plug-in like ozone for example like you
26:59
know we see a lot of guys what we will
27:01
see is we will see a lot of people who
27:04
are into rock music and kind of
27:05
electronic dance music using dogs that
27:09
are more
27:10
you know more music focus for a
27:12
mastering plugin for example you know
27:14
it’s a similar case where Wavelab
27:17
doesn’t come up as I don’t believe
27:19
Wavelab actually comes up as a mastering
27:21
host we support for ozone even though
27:24
that in and of itself is mastering
27:25
software and it’s really just the way
27:27
it’s just we’re basing it off the way
27:29
our customers use products because
27:31
there’s no way for us to test all 500 or
27:34
1,000 jobs that exist in the world I
27:36
think that’s how many there are at this
27:37
point so yeah it’s pretty weird it’s
27:40
surprising in the way that people use
27:42
our plugins I would expect people to be
27:44
using a lot more Wavelab but I think the
27:47
majority as you can move forward into
27:48
the future you know people are more
27:51
people are recording more people are
27:53
working with music more people are doing
27:54
the stuff themselves so they’re they’re
27:56
reaching for solutions and dogs that are
27:58
maybe a little bit more accessible I
28:01
know that’s the right word but it’s it’s
28:04
becoming a bit democratized so you’re
28:07
some more logics more – you know that’s
28:09
a da w that $199 how much Reaper are
28:13
using Reaper has definitely been rising
28:15
over the years honestly it’s one of
28:17
those dogs that when I was at cakewalk
28:20
we saw we lost a lot of people to Reaper
28:24
because it was a dog that worked really
28:27
well in Windows and a cakewalk we had
28:31
made a big switch to a new kind of
28:33
interface so we lost a lot of customers
28:35
and then we saw all these like almost
28:38
popularity of Reaper and all of our
28:40
cakewalk customers started just talking
28:43
about how they’ve switched to Reaper and
28:45
now I’m not an isotope years later you
28:48
know this is a product that’s coming up
28:49
over and over and over and over again
28:52
and we definitely test for it and I’m
28:54
pretty sure all of our engineers
28:55
actually use it so it’s a kind of
28:57
watching a very popular da and they’re
28:59
doing really cool things like they’ve
29:00
integrated air a you know it’s
29:02
incredible I think Reaper is amazing and
29:06
I would venture to say watch out Pro
29:08
Tools because it’s definitely the choice
29:11
of people that can’t afford stuff and as
29:13
they enter the workforce and then you
29:15
look at some of the features that Reaper
29:17
has that like Reaper can record the
29:19
output of the whole plug-in chain in
29:21
just one click whereas like Pro Tools
29:22
you’re bussing around you
29:24
that and you look at how lightweight
29:26
Reaper is compared to Pro Tools it’s
29:28
insane it’s tiny compared to how big Pro
29:32
Tools is and even though you know you
29:34
would say like well Pro Tools is so
29:35
powerful of course it’s huge but it’s
29:37
like I don’t know like leap for almost
29:39
one for one’s all of Churchill’s
29:41
features except for like someone like
29:43
the really obscure more post oriented
29:45
stuff but you know like probably the
29:47
hardest thing about Reaper is the
29:49
interface yeah I agree with that and you
29:50
know a lot of those a lot of those
29:51
studios a lot of those post Knox’s a lot
29:53
of those juggernauts that are into Pro
29:55
Tools they have all the hardware and all
29:57
the accelerated DSP cards that come with
29:59
Pro Tools and so there’s this whole
30:01
platform that avatars on you know a lot
30:04
of people’s systems that I don’t know if
30:06
Reaper will ever be able to talk but you
30:08
want to right there are there are
30:09
smaller and more agile companies that
30:12
are moving and doing things implementing
30:14
features that are just beyond what Pro
30:17
Tools has done you know I mean I
30:19
remember when they introduced spectral
30:20
editing and Reaper and I was like really
30:23
you guys put spectral editing in Reaper
30:24
how the heck did you do that and you can
30:27
multitrack spectral editing and I think
30:29
I think the only other job that does
30:31
that is reason yeah now that’s a really
30:33
interesting point with so basically if
30:36
you talk about Reaper you talk about
30:37
people who are learning on a budget they
30:40
will probably go Reaper as opposed to
30:42
Pro Tools so with our ex do you target
30:46
those people at the entry level working
30:48
in the on a budget so it becomes just a
30:51
tool they’re so used to that when they
30:52
do actually get to the point of working
30:54
in a big production suite that they take
30:57
those tools with them but I will say
31:02
that we are aware of the I guess you
31:07
could say the people who aren’t in the
31:09
production houses doing editorial work
31:12
for major motion films and television
31:15
shows you know I mean we are we’re well
31:17
aware that those those individuals exist
31:19
and we are we’re still kind of thinking
31:22
about what we do you know what I mean
31:23
because red point I will retain an
31:25
interest and word and much like avid
31:28
could potentially be usurped by some
31:31
sort of smaller more agile company or
31:33
something you know now that’s that’s
31:34
always a scare for any big company when
31:36
you’re in that
31:37
a position but we’re well aware of it
31:39
you know and we’re always keeping tabs
31:40
on that stuff and and I’m pretty sure we
31:42
have great relationships with all of the
31:44
people that are in our space as well so
31:45
some of those things were off it’s a
31:47
small industry one big happy family and
31:50
burst all kind of fighting for market
31:51
share in our own strange little ways you
31:55
know so but yeah observing the way these
31:57
people are getting into the industry
31:59
work you know is really interesting I
32:01
remember doing I remember talking to a
32:03
guy that was like a full-time podcast
32:04
engineer and I was like oh cool so you
32:06
must be Pro Tools you know it’s like
32:09
nope I use Hindenburg and I’m like oh
32:11
okay what Wow all right so yeah that’s
32:16
like a popular one with reporters
32:18
yep that’s popular with reporters and
32:21
radio stations and and a similar crowd
32:24
to the audition crowd you know which was
32:28
really cool like the reason why I
32:30
audition is in radio so much really has
32:33
nothing to do adobe like it’s just
32:35
serendipitous that Adobe got that
32:37
through audition having purchased cool
32:40
at it to make audition but it’s funny
32:43
though if you talk about that sort of
32:45
analogy of people growing up with
32:46
something and taking it with them
32:47
changing the product to say a microphone
32:51
for instance if you’re a budget guy
32:53
working at home you’re not going to go
32:54
out and buy a u47 but when you get to a
32:58
position where you can afford to you 47
33:00
you’re probably gonna buy you 47 sodas
33:03
rx kind of put itself in that kind of
33:05
view 47 area where it’s something that
33:08
you aspire to a question I can answer
33:15
that okay I can answer it from a studio
33:19
point of view because I’m the person
33:21
that that that Andrews talking about
33:23
from my point of view I think where
33:26
you’ve been clever is you have rx-7
33:29
standard which is basically the the bare
33:33
bones of the things that you’ll need to
33:36
get you going but then you know like I
33:39
did spent the whatever it was 1,100
33:41
1,200 1,300 bucks and went for the full
33:43
suite with the spectral analysis and all
33:45
that stuff and yes that was that was how
33:48
I got there I started with with
33:50
with the the the cheaper version first
33:52
and then and when I realized I’m
33:55
using this and I’m using it regularly
33:56
and I could use all the other stuff it’s
33:58
definitely worth my while investing and
34:01
then you do so um I don’t know I mean I
34:04
don’t know whether that’s the way he
34:05
designed it but certainly that’s the way
34:06
I ended up following the chain yeah we
34:09
we you know we know that the the
34:11
high-end the advanced version is like a
34:13
professional tool sometimes a question
34:15
the way people actually I mean I think
34:16
they’re tasting point like you
34:18
specifically worked up to buying it
34:20
sometimes I’ve wondered though like you
34:22
know is that what people are actually
34:24
doing because we go out of the gate
34:27
singing on all the time and obviously we
34:28
expect our you know reach that customers
34:31
to be professionals and they purchase
34:34
that software but you know we do
34:36
surprise you know there are a ton of
34:37
people who own rx advanced that are just
34:40
you know amateurs or you know they’re
34:43
kind of get that that mentality they get
34:45
you know that Gibson has where they are
34:47
you know they sell to lawyers and to
34:56
double down on that we specifically have
34:58
an element’s version of rx where you can
35:01
get it for a hundred and twenty nine
35:02
dollars you get the spectral editor so I
35:04
think we could see we want to see a lot
35:06
of podcasters and a lot of voiceover
35:08
artists really getting into that because
35:09
that’s kind of an entry level you know
35:11
and from there you can really learn
35:13
tools and and upgrade to the advanced
35:16
version eventually well the two big
35:18
industries that are booming obviously
35:19
are podcasting for a kickoff and
35:21
audiobooks and audiobooks are massive I
35:26
mean this is a never-ending industry you
35:30
know you’re never gonna run out of books
35:31
to tennis audiobooks so are you guys
35:35
looking at anything any tools like we
35:37
mentioned before that would help people
35:39
doing audiobooks question I I think
35:44
that’s a space that has a lot of
35:45
potential and the more we look at the
35:49
general problems that people are kind of
35:53
running into the more we get back to
35:56
thinking about how we can eliminate
35:58
steps in the ending and repair process
36:00
for people who maybe don’t want
36:03
get into the weeds with every single
36:05
every single closest in an entire
36:08
dialogue track that’s why we’re kind of
36:10
introducing these this idea of like
36:12
assistive technology like repair
36:14
assistant where this is meant and to be
36:16
aimed at kind of the essentials of what
36:19
you would need to get a starting point
36:21
for repairing and repairing something or
36:23
editing something so when we when we
36:25
look to the future we look at expanding
36:27
that type of technology because we think
36:29
that that’s really where the future is
36:30
for a lot of people you know and i think
36:32
that i think that like there’s so many
36:37
people getting into this and there’s no
36:39
time to be do if spending hours doing
36:41
the stuff that the future is kind of
36:42
going there we’re eliminating we’re kind
36:44
of bringing these workflows all together
36:45
and consolidating workflows and not the
36:49
stereo kind of consolidation where
36:50
people are losing their jobs but the
36:52
good kind where people where these
36:54
things are enabling people to be more
36:56
creative you know I mean there’s they’re
36:58
giving you more time back so that you
36:59
can spend more time working on something
37:02
writing a script being creative going on
37:04
doing more research so that you can tell
37:06
your story better you know so I think
37:09
that’s I think that’s that’s really
37:10
where we’re heads are at
37:12
you know really expanding that kind of
37:14
assistive technology like audiobooks are
37:17
a pain in the neck for the money to get
37:19
the you know for the amount of work that
37:20
goes into it too especially if you up
37:23
you know if you can read the whole book
37:26
without making a mistake and like every
37:29
time you breathe and don’t click or
37:31
anything perfect but that’s a robot so
37:36
for the rest of normal human beings that
37:38
doesn’t happen that way so they spend
37:40
hours and hours cleaning up the audio
37:42
you know doing the edits getting rid of
37:45
all that the mistakes and all those bits
37:47
and pieces you know the way around that
37:49
don’t you get someone else to read it no
37:51
just hey Siri read war and peace series
38:00
answering me Siri but any of those kind
38:04
of plugins will be fantastic even doing
38:07
like long-form stuff if I do be learning
38:09
and things it’s always the edit that
38:11
takes the time yeah and the scary thing
38:13
about it
38:14
kind of scares me today but you know I
38:16
think it’s cool if you have enough data
38:19
I think just about any behavior can be
38:22
learned by an algorithm and then you can
38:26
train it to make decisions on its own
38:29
now these are very primitive decisions
38:31
and the decisions have to be very
38:33
clear-cut you can’t just say go go fix
38:37
this audio because it sounds weird you
38:39
can’t do that yet but like you know
38:41
there’s a point where you can say you
38:44
know here’s a specific problem I have
38:47
enough data to back that up and we can
38:49
actually design a plug-in that will
38:50
address that we’ve done this with like
38:52
you know like you said mouths d click or
38:55
D rustle or dialogue D reverb these are
38:58
tools that are highly specialized for
39:01
very specific use cases and there’s no
39:03
reason to think that over time some
39:05
long-form eLearning those types of
39:08
scenarios could be learned and then
39:10
solved with some sort of plugin I
39:12
totally see a future loops yes I’m
39:16
interested to ask you the question
39:18
talking about the it’s probably this is
39:19
moving outside the voice-over spectrum a
39:21
bit but I’m not sure whether it comes
39:24
with elements or whether it’s only with
39:26
the top-end version of rx but the music
39:28
rebalance I’ve sort of used that for
39:33
many things in my radio imaging work but
39:36
I’m wondering where that came from was
39:37
what was the demand that that isotope
39:40
was answering when you developed that
39:41
one I mean to us being means apologetic
39:47
and obsessed with sound and the R
39:50
behind sound just exploring the future
39:53
of where audio is that’s really where
39:56
some of the stuff comes from I mean we
39:57
we think of ourselves as always trying
39:59
to go where the cup will be and being
40:02
able to take something and I think the
40:05
phrase earlier with use unbaked the cake
40:08
that’s really always been the dream that
40:11
people have had and you know with
40:14
machine learning it’s not possible to do
40:17
that so we thought hey you know there’s
40:20
a there’s a big music market out there
40:22
and we want to get music we want to get
40:25
our ex into the hands of more musicians
40:26
because it has so many benefits for
40:28
there
40:28
workflows so we experimented we took a
40:30
big risk and said hey here’s a tool that
40:33
allows you to separate these basic
40:37
elements of a mix and you know we
40:40
thought of it like well this could be
40:42
pretty powerful in the hands of music
40:43
users and it’s pretty amazing technology
40:45
let’s see if we could you know make this
40:47
get get this in the hands of music and
40:49
get more get the word out that our exits
40:51
for music and that’s really where the
40:53
assumption was it was to try and really
40:56
just address and understand musicians
40:59
workflows and really help them in ways
41:01
they never thought they could so it was
41:03
less of a it was less than like oh we
41:05
saw a clear problem that we had to solve
41:07
one three zeroes and it was more of like
41:10
let’s go to where the puck is and see if
41:12
we can drive a workflow that’s never
41:13
been done before
41:14
and what we’ve seen since is people are
41:17
using that tool to do things I’ve never
41:18
seen we never dreamed of doing
41:21
janna mixing and and and isolating like
41:25
you were saying isolating infamous songs
41:28
or rebalance rebalancing songs that had
41:30
crappy recordings and I’ve seen it used
41:34
for noise removal and we’re sorry bleed
41:36
removal in live scenarios where you have
41:38
a single microphone on a vocal and the
41:40
drums are behind the mic you just take
41:42
the drums off it’s crazy Wow yeah yeah
41:44
you don’t think about that yeah that’s
41:46
clever
41:47
yeah yes so it’s it’s yeah we put that
41:50
in standard because we felt like that
41:51
was the price point that a lot of our
41:53
customers who are in the music are
41:54
really you know operating at so that is
41:57
in standard that it I could remember
41:59
yeah there you go it’s gonna say cuz
42:02
yeah I think I think you’re right and
42:04
it’s not just you musicians as we talked
42:06
about before this episode we started
42:08
recording you know I think radio has
42:10
really or radio imaging guys have really
42:13
taken to it I hear it used in a lot of
42:15
places with different things but every
42:17
time we have a conversation with someone
42:20
okay so well I mean I think before the
42:24
show we talked about how I used it and
42:27
and rad let’s reach let’s recap for the
42:29
listeners who weren’t in who weren’t
42:30
there I was working for a radio station
42:34
who was doing a Friday promotion it was
42:37
feel-good Friday or something like that
42:38
oh that’s what you’re talking about
42:40
yes yes so so yes so I took I took the
42:46
cure it’s a top 40 station but I loved
42:48
the Isle of the idea of everything old
42:51
becoming new in my approach to radio
42:53
imaging and so I took the cue is Friday
42:56
I am in love
42:56
used your music rebalance and basically
42:59
isolated the vocal Friday I’m in love
43:02
but then put that over a loop that I in
43:07
fact what I’ll do at the end of the show
43:09
I’ll play the promo and people can hear
43:10
what I did but it took to put that over
43:13
a loop that I’d created and some synth
43:16
sounds and all that sort of stuff and
43:18
all the imaging around it the whoohoo
43:19
the wire the voiceover all that sort of
43:21
stuff
43:21
and and that’s how I used it but I’ve
43:23
heard other guys are sampling guitar
43:26
riffs in rock stations now and I’m
43:28
presuming that they’ve used they’ve used
43:32
like the values let’s say an ac/dc riff
43:37
but they’ve isolated just the guitar and
43:39
they use that to start a promo so it
43:41
grabs your attention or whatever so it’s
43:43
being used all over the place in radio
43:45
for I imagine people are using that to
43:49
to sort of steal little bits and pieces
43:52
and and and sort of make everything new
43:54
again as you say yeah it’s like it’s
43:56
like getting the original stems isn’t it
43:58
really it is yeah it’s like having the
44:00
multitrack there and going wow what bits
44:01
of this can I use now it’s sort of it
44:03
opens up a whole new world yeah yeah
44:05
yeah what is your what is your biggest
44:08
market is it music or do you actually
44:10
know who the biggest buyers are I think
44:14
markets for us I would say that Post is
44:18
one of our biggest and then I think I
44:21
don’t know how to characterize it but
44:25
ozone is like our biggest you know I
44:28
think it’s one of our biggest and most
44:29
popular plugins so I think you know from
44:32
from from LA to Japan to Germany to
44:35
England France probably Australia you
44:39
know they’re like everybody uses ozone
44:41
I’ve seen people build studios around
44:43
the idea about ozone exists and they
44:45
only use ozone replace all of their gear
44:48
so not to say anything I would say that
44:50
I would say that ozone was probably the
44:52
whole kind of
44:53
mastering world’s really are that’s
44:57
really our specialty and I would say Rx
44:58
and post is a close second
45:01
you know it’s kind of amazing how
45:03
popular ozone is an Rx is it’s the point
45:06
where people refer to those plugins
45:08
after this more than once but they say
45:10
oh yeah I’ve heard of that I’ve got I
45:13
know I’ve been meaning to try out the
45:15
isotope and I’m like what do you mean I
45:17
said you know the ice is gone I’m like
45:19
you mean ozone is a candy I said the
45:22
isotope you know it’s like we are
45:25
company and we products are now
45:27
interchangeable to some people because
45:29
I’m funny we have the reverse oh yeah so
45:32
we have people calling yeah we have
45:34
people calling the company like source
45:36
connect like well actually the company
45:37
source elements with our popular
45:40
software is source connect yeah yeah
45:42
yeah yeah right they go it’s the other
45:45
one I’ve been playing with just as an
45:46
aside is nectar I think you had it on
45:48
sale or something and I I’ve said to the
45:51
boys it’s I use it a lot now I find I
45:53
use it a lot now when I want to do
45:55
something quickly so we’re you know if
45:58
we’re I would muck around with you know
46:01
okay here’s my voice track let’s
46:02
compress it let’s EQ at less blah blah
46:04
blah if I’m in a rush now but I still
46:06
want to get a good sound go I actually
46:08
find I’m throwing it into nectar and I
46:11
start with this suggestion that you do
46:13
what’s what do you call that and then
46:17
and then I just change it change it from
46:19
there so I’m finding when I’m you know
46:22
whether it’s a job that’s not paying a
46:24
lot of money but I still need to get
46:25
done or whether I’m just really am
46:27
pushed for time I’m finding I’m throwing
46:29
it into there and it and really is great
46:31
it’s very very intuitive it was kind of
46:38
based around the idea that there’s very
46:41
specific steps involved in vocal
46:44
production and you know unsurprisingly
46:47
work great with dialog and voiceover and
46:50
those those specific steps all lead to a
46:54
place where the speaker or the sinner
46:58
just sounds good in context with
47:01
whatever elements are around it so the
47:03
theory was can we design a chain of
47:06
effects or intelligent suggestions that
47:09
always no matter what make the speaker
47:12
the singer the voice actor sound good in
47:16
context to their their mix and that’s
47:19
where the whole idea of nectar elements
47:21
came from and the idea of like vocal
47:22
assistant came from where like these are
47:25
things that people do every day we can
47:26
we can definitely solve this and make
47:29
this easier for people and then make it
47:30
more cream frankly so it’s exciting
47:33
that’s that’s really cool I’m only just
47:36
start it’s only been a month or so but
47:38
I’m loving it
47:39
yeah really good nice that’s awesome
47:41
it’s been asked you Dan what do you
47:42
think about like slight audio and towns
47:45
in with what they’re doing with
47:46
microphones that stuff is awesome I
47:49
think it’s awesome where the technology
47:51
has taken us we did this technology
47:53
existed a long time ago which is
47:55
interesting not a long time ago I mean
47:56
it was like 20 years ago but I think was
47:58
aunt iris put out the first like mic
48:00
modeling kind of tech here was called it
48:04
was like a hardware unit and it had like
48:05
just like it was called which is
48:11
spectral shrinking school which was
48:13
essentially mic model or if you want to
48:16
do all the work yourself yeah I think
48:23
it’s spectacular technology honestly I
48:25
think what Townsend and Slade are doing
48:28
is they’re really making the idea of the
48:31
u47 being the microphone that you need
48:34
in order to be a professional go away
48:36
and doing and addressing it in ways that
48:38
are it’s a truly just mind-blowing you
48:41
know I think that the townsend mic
48:43
especially it does a really great job of
48:47
being able to even match the polar
48:49
patterns and allow the users to flip the
48:52
polar patterns after the recording is
48:54
done and it’s like these are things that
48:56
could have never been done before
48:58
you know what I mean and it’s like it’s
49:00
just so creative in the way they’ve
49:01
implemented so I love it I think it’s
49:03
really cool and I think the idea that
49:04
you only need a single microphone to
49:06
really get your production done is it’s
49:09
a it’s like kind of one of those big
49:11
hairy audacious goals but like somehow
49:13
they delivered on that you know so I
49:16
think it’s awesome honestly I do really
49:18
think it’s a really cool
49:19
a really cool technology and I’m
49:21
honestly really excited to see where it
49:22
goes in the future you know because
49:24
we’re this is the first round and that
49:26
we’re only gonna get more crazier things
49:28
down the line well the fact that you’re
49:30
using grace design to do a couple of
49:32
your preamps it leads me to the question
49:35
are you talking to microphone companies
49:38
to look at that area I would say we’re I
49:42
mean we have a great relationship with
49:44
all the microphone companies out there
49:46
you know I just think that there’s an
49:49
opportunity yet I don’t think I’ll be
49:51
one in the future but you know we’re
49:53
always we have our stuff bundled with
49:55
some microphone companies like Blue
49:56
Microphones so we’re always we’re always
49:58
talking to them and just kind of meeting
50:00
up at trade shows and whatnot but you
50:02
know I don’t know there could be a cool
50:04
partnership in the future but I’m not
50:06
too sure yet honestly it’s it’s we have
50:09
many things that we’re going after yeah
50:13
but I think you know I think I think
50:15
what you’ll see if anything is start to
50:17
expand you know the idea of hardware and
50:20
an isotope into the future you know I
50:22
mean that’s that’s where I think we’re
50:23
you know the form factor we’ve delivered
50:26
with spire I think it’s a good
50:27
indication of the type of experience is
50:29
one of the over the future and it just
50:30
so happens there’s a microphone in that
50:31
so who knows well it’s gonna be
50:35
interesting to see see there I say
50:38
isotope coming out of the box and then
50:42
building some hardware yeah so be very
50:44
interesting and it’s getting into it
50:47
that sort of area now where people have
50:49
yeah people have gone from outboard that
50:51
you know some reluctantly have moved
50:53
into the box 100% and now all of a
50:57
sudden there’s people coming sort of
50:59
half out of the box so it’s good do a
51:02
bit of a circle about how these little
51:08
devices that we have everybody has you
51:10
know like the echo waves and the all
51:12
these other kind of home devices like
51:15
we’re developing these like kind of
51:18
really connected software and hardware
51:21
experiences and I just think it delivers
51:23
the coolest I could just do so many cool
51:25
things we’ve never been able to do
51:27
before and it really excites me about
51:28
where the future of consumer technology
51:30
is going and how I may
51:32
happen in the audio world you know so
51:34
yeah yeah very exciting now I do notice
51:38
that we we have to get a new plugin to
51:40
remove the background noise of a Porsche
51:42
944 because I got a funny feeling
51:44
Roberts in the car now iZotope 944 that
51:55
sounds cool
51:56
yeah no person could remove the Porsche
51:58
944 out of your driveway working now I
52:06
just got it cars sound we would need to
52:22
have it for a number of months in the
52:24
house probably you’d probably need a few
52:38
good test drives – wouldn’t you down in
52:39
there somewhere I would imagine yeah
52:43
there’s so many variables roof cover all
52:48
scenarios yep you know has a couple of
52:55
hardware boxes and for like you know
52:57
here’s a few simple faders that had
53:00
achieved some using results is there any
53:04
consideration for that type of box there
53:06
like when you were talking about hard
53:08
work we actually did that a long time
53:10
ago we had a noise reduction box that
53:13
had two channels in it and it was so
53:17
good that everybody bought one and there
53:19
was nobody else buying them and then it
53:22
just nobody bought
53:26
yeah it’s called the ARB and it was the
53:29
first box as I am specifically for noise
53:31
removal yeah and then everybody who
53:33
needed it thought it nobody else bought
53:35
it and yeah we forget about it now
53:40
picking around the offices
53:45
further nope not at all it I forget when
53:48
we ended life tip but I think there are
53:51
still some in some broadcast trucks that
53:54
drive around the country and yeah we
53:58
discontinued that a number of years ago
53:59
and now it’s just really a paperweight
54:03
but you really went down that route yeah
54:06
we went down that route and it just was
54:08
the wrong place for us I think and yeah
54:11
we decided to move and stay on software
54:13
so yeah rest in peace DNR B you can go
54:18
alright so anyway so for next episode
54:21
I’m taking a leaf out of Roberts book I
54:23
will be phoning the next episode in from
54:27
a hammock on the beach in Fiji oh nice
54:29
yeah that’s what that’s my that’s my boy
54:32
I’m gonna do
54:32
nice like it well I won’t be so boohoo
54:38
to me thank you Dan for joining us on
54:41
this very loose podcast yes our xrx that
54:46
out baby
54:47
[Laughter]
54:54
sweets for Friday perfection must be
54:58
another do good friday i 98 that was the
55:05
pro audio suite if you have any
55:07
questions or ideas for a show let us
55:09
know fire our facebook the pro audio
55:12
suite podcast
55:17
you
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