EP 23 | Tips and Tricks from the man who recorded the Beatles.

Richard Lush is a British-born Australian recording engineer and producer. He began his career in the mid-1960s as an assistant engineer at Abbey Road Studios in London.

Working alongside producer Sir George Martin and senior engineer Geoff Emerick, Richard participated in nearly one hundred Beatles recording sessions and is credited as Second Engineer on all tracks on the Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band album.

In this episode, we talk with Richerd about his time at Abbey Road, working with the Beatles, and delve into some of the stories about recording at such a landmark time in the music industry.

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TRANSCRIPT

this is a test of the emergency
00:03
broadcast system of high tech for sound
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[Music]
00:15
welcome to the pro audio suite a podcast
00:18
for audio and voiceovers professionals
00:21
don’t forget to check us out on our
00:23
Facebook the pro audio suite podcast
00:25
[Music]
00:31
now let’s get on with the show from Los
00:34
Angeles George Wickham from Chicago
00:36
Robert Marshall from Sydney Australia
00:39
Rob oh and from sunny Melbourne and
00:42
repeaters this is the pro audio suite
00:46
welcome to a special pro audio suite
00:49
this week it’s the four of us but we’ve
00:52
got an interview that we’ve dug up from
00:53
the archives which is an interview with
00:55
Richard lush who was one of the
00:58
engineers who worked at EMI in London
01:00
with the Beatles in fact he started back
01:03
in the mid 60s or 64 I think was his
01:06
start date and then ended up working
01:08
with John Lennon before moving to
01:10
Australia now I reckon Robert because
01:12
you’re a bit of a you like a bit of a
01:14
Brit pop from the 80s here would be a
01:17
bit of a Beatles guy I if you had to put
01:21
me in a desert island it’d probably be
01:23
the Beatles but it’d be a toss-up
01:25
between Beatles and Floyd it be Beatles
01:27
or Floyd if I could only have one like I
01:30
don’t know what would it be it be like
01:31
ah man revolver like remembers you all
01:35
maybe there you go interesting yeah yeah
01:41
revolving I’ve gotta savor that see my
01:42
two favorites are revolver and Rubber
01:45
Soul Rubber Soul oh those are the best
01:47
yeah I mean yeah I those to me are the
01:49
bet like II you know
01:50
Sergeant Pepper and those are great but
01:52
there’s this something about the moment
01:53
in time that revolver happened and
01:55
Rubber Soul happened which was like the
01:57
inflection of their careers that just
01:59
makes me super special can I can I make
02:01
a startling confession here while I
02:04
appreciate the cleverness of their music
02:08
I’m not a huge fan I really know I
02:12
appreciate I appreciate the the
02:15
creativity and everything else that went
02:17
into their music but I don’t the Beatles
02:20
is one act that I don’t sit down I don’t
02:23
think I even own an album I went crazy
02:25
digging up stuff like the off-white
02:27
album and all the outtakes and the whole
02:29
thing where you can hear John Lennon
02:31
construct Strawberry Fields I don’t know
02:34
it to me the Beatles are amazing for a
02:36
number of reasons compositionally
02:38
they’re their melodies and core
02:39
progressions are great performers
02:42
they’re great performers and then you’ve
02:44
just got the
02:45
duction which while in today’s standards
02:47
is like okay not that great but when you
02:49
put it in historical context it’s
02:52
monumental you know it’s just like it’s
02:54
got all three I think I don’t dare I I
02:56
don’t disagree with any of that but it’s
02:58
just I didn’t know it’s just never
02:59
struck a chord with me it’s never made
03:01
me want to go WOW are going to hear that
03:03
again or you know I’m going to read a
03:05
book I’ll put a Beatles record on it’s
03:07
just never done that for me don’t know
03:09
why do you know the funny thing is that
03:10
I could because I’m the oldest person
03:12
here I grew up in the UK when the
03:14
Beatles kicked off and I can remember
03:17
going home to watch the Beatles on TV
03:19
for the first time and it must have been
03:22
I’ve got two older brothers one was like
03:24
into the mod thing and the Beatles and
03:26
the other one was into the Rolling
03:27
Stones and all that kind of stuff I went
03:30
the Rolling Stones route I must admit I
03:32
just never really got the Beatles and it
03:34
took me probably only until the last
03:36
maybe 15 years that it finally clicked
03:40
but now I listen to it and think how
03:42
incredibly they were recorded
03:44
I mean you listen to Rubber Soul or
03:46
revolver are those records and they’re
03:48
working more track for a for a for track
03:52
yeah yeah at the same time that Motel is
03:55
working on eight tracks Beatles are
03:56
working on four tracks yeah the LD was
03:58
pretty startingly different I mean that
04:01
yeah it was like a one-inch four track I
04:03
mean talk about awesome do you know I
04:05
think that was though with the Beatles
04:07
because the EMI was Anil historically a
04:11
whereas it was a studio that record
04:13
that’s all music yes so there was a
04:16
whole ain’t quite right there Anil so
04:18
you know everything was by the book
04:20
because iam I was so Anil there’s books
04:22
and you can just see like they
04:24
documented all the setups because
04:26
whenever they came in this was the setup
04:27
for the Beatles like we’re gonna put
04:29
this mic here again and I was all very
04:31
repeatable because they were so
04:32
scientific about it so it’s you know
04:35
like other things you like who knows how
04:36
they did those things and people
04:37
speculate but you know how they recorded
04:40
the Beatles to me actually it’s
04:43
interesting because when I was like in I
04:44
don’t know how old exactly but I
04:46
remember thinking the Beatles were
04:47
horrible when I was really young and one
04:51
of the reasons why cuz I just kind of
04:52
associated them wrongly with like you
04:54
know whatever doo-wop and everything
04:56
from the 60s and I didn’t like 50s and
04:58
60s
04:59
like that and it wasn’t until I learned
05:02
and really like got into music that I
05:06
appreciated who the Beatles were and I
05:08
think one of the things about the
05:09
Beatles that maybe it’s kind of like
05:12
Steely Dan and I think XTC is that way
05:14
and there’s a lot of bands that
05:16
musicians just get it because it’s it’s
05:20
like musicians playing for musicians a
05:22
little bit that makes sense yeah yeah it
05:25
was remember Jethro Tull that was the
05:28
musicians band wasn’t it really me it
05:30
was um I got distracted by this other
05:33
u.s. artists based here in Los Angeles
05:35
who went by the name Frank Zappa oh yeah
05:38
and that kind of distracted me from the
05:41
Beatles for a really long time I mean I
05:43
was obsessed with Zappa I have like 50
05:45
CDs
05:47
you know and so and I became a more
05:50
Beals
05:50
a more of an appreciator of Beatles in
05:52
later years you know I just and I’m you
05:55
know I’m probably somewhere between Rob
05:58
oh and Robert on that you know and the
06:00
love of Beatles curve but yeah totally
06:04
blown away with what they accomplished
06:06
with the limited resources they had I’ve
06:09
hit this point with the Beatles where
06:11
I’ve listened to so much of it in
06:12
college and everything that I I don’t
06:15
listen to them as much now because I’ve
06:16
just had overdosed on them and I went
06:19
through a point where I just tried to
06:20
learn everything but it’s almost like
06:22
you know like some like someone you love
06:24
you don’t need to you know they love you
06:26
you know they’re there and she loves you
06:31
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we
06:36
should let Richard have a chat okay
06:38
this is Richard lush 25th of June 1967 a
06:43
live broadcast with product of one of
06:45
the first words uttered supposedly which
06:47
I’ve never actually heard roll tape
06:49
Richard is that correct probably I think
06:51
mizzen are you ready Richard in there
06:53
somewhere too
06:54
it was extremely nervous moment in our
06:57
lives all our lives indeed well the
07:00
moment was a live broadcast satellite
07:02
broadcaster The Beatles all you need is
07:05
love yes
07:07
very very nervous there was a BBC van
07:10
outside which was beaming the satellite
07:13
sound and pictures and we lost
07:16
communication between the van just
07:19
before we started recording so George
07:22
Martin was very sort of nervous we had
07:25
to literally you know just go and hope
07:28
that it was happening out in the van
07:30
somewhere but everybody was nervous John
07:33
was nervous all the Beatles from there
07:35
was like well we were all very glad when
07:38
it was over now that was a place you
07:40
ended up the question is how you got
07:42
there in the beginning gosh that was 67
07:46
I started in 65 about June July 65 but
07:50
before that as a kid what was your
07:52
interest in music I used to play a
07:55
guitar and I had a few shadows records
07:59
and I was quite interested in them
08:02
Bruce Welsh lives lived quite near us in
08:06
Harrow and I sort of seen him a couple
08:09
of times so there was a bit of an
08:12
interest there apart from that I mean at
08:15
school you were either a Beatles fan or
08:18
a Stones fan
08:20
everybody was Beatles so I went Rolling
08:22
Stones
08:23
I must mean I did the same thing but the
08:24
interesting connection there I just
08:26
realized you’re from hair oh my grop
08:28
inch essent oh and my neighbor in Barry
08:31
Green was Cliff Richard boy yeah yeah
08:34
there you go
08:37
yeah but so they would get like cliff
08:39
before the what drifters who became the
08:42
shadows came on yeah he was in a skiffle
08:44
band that was really big in that in the
08:46
late 50s in England right were you into
08:49
skiffle No must have been he had a
08:54
couple of records that were quite good
08:56
and obviously I think the shadows were
08:58
very influenced by him my sister’s
09:02
boyfriend at the time like sort of jazz
09:05
there was quite a big you know Chris
09:07
Barber I could build these sort of
09:09
people there was quite a large following
09:13
of jazz music so I mean the early pop me
09:16
is of course in England was in fact
09:18
cliff I guess
09:20
yeah Bill Haley started it all Bill
09:23
Haley Gene Vincent because you were to
09:25
upon the Cliff Richard records summer
09:27
haha yeah before I actually work with
09:30
the Beatles
09:31
yeah and I sort of continued to be kind
09:34
of friends with em over the years
09:35
I saw them a couple company years three
09:38
years ago or something when they came to
09:39
Sydney yeah for that final sure and it’s
09:44
been a long journey it has it’s
09:46
interesting though because there’s one
09:47
thing being like a fan of music or
09:49
playing a guitar actually making a
09:52
career out of it is pretty big jump so
09:54
what inspired you to get there was
09:58
actually well we’re going back to
09:59
Richard again it was actually shadows
10:02
album and on the back of on the back of
10:05
this house was sort of a write-up for
10:07
the recording and I thought oh that Ben
10:10
that would be interesting to actually
10:12
work where they recorded it I mean this
10:14
friend of mine had a tape recorder at
10:17
the time and he’s to record me playing
10:20
guitar every now and then and fiddle
10:22
around with tape machines so I went
10:24
along for an interview and they didn’t
10:28
actually have a job at the time but they
10:31
they were interviewing a few people and
10:34
then they sent me a note lessor about
10:38
probably about two months three months
10:40
later and said come for another
10:42
interview there might be a job for you
10:44
so two of us actually started on the
10:47
same day Peter Mew went on to do
10:50
mastering and he only left abbey road
10:53
last year so he’s been the longest
10:56
surviving Abbey Road employee which is
10:59
that’s scary yeah it is scary how many
11:04
times he walked over the crossing I have
11:06
no idea but a few have you got a
11:09
photograph though yeah probably not
11:12
no no no it maybe does have somewhere
11:15
but no but he’s you know everybody was
11:19
amazed that he lasted that long you know
11:21
yeah do you remember your first day I’d
11:23
be right no
11:26
there were no I don’t remember although
11:30
I can remember I mean I started in the
11:32
tape library it was basically a room
11:35
upstairs where all the tapes were kept
11:38
and that was kind of your first job
11:40
though I can remember vaguely sitting
11:43
down with Peter sort of learning you
11:45
just learnt how to write out a tape box
11:47
and all this kind of stuff where all the
11:50
tapes went the difference between a
11:52
four-track tape and a stereo tape and a
11:55
mother tape you know we we did that for
11:58
a probably a couple of months and then
12:00
one you know you got to become a
12:03
button-pusher as they called us back
12:05
then and button-pusher involved what
12:07
exactly a button push depended on what
12:11
the sessions were but you basically
12:13
helped set up sessions you’re
12:16
responsible for all the tape machines
12:19
which in sort of Beatle sessions he had
12:23
you know sometimes two four tracks three
12:26
stereos machines going so you had quite
12:29
a few things to do on a classical
12:31
session you’d have two stereo machines
12:34
maybe three stereo machines running so
12:38
that was quite involved if you had to
12:39
change tape and they wanted to literally
12:42
you know to another movement or whatever
12:44
it was you had to sort of whip the tapes
12:47
off pretty quickly because they were
12:49
very patient and so it was you know it’s
12:52
quite a lot of pressure
12:53
later later on on the Beatles stuff of
12:56
course you were in charge of sort of
12:58
taped lounging and phasing and sometimes
13:02
editing so yeah it was kind of you know
13:05
quite involved it wasn’t just a question
13:08
of sitting here right that’s a machine
13:10
and pressing record it was you know and
13:12
you were sort of involved with decisions
13:14
and you know you’d say you like
13:16
something and you know they’d say no and
13:19
then they’d say oh maybe not you know
13:21
maybe that’s just right don’t Beatles
13:24
stuff it was them
13:25
George Jeff and I throw in our to Bob’s
13:28
within ya because as a tape up which for
13:32
people who don’t know you’re the guy
13:34
that had to drop you to drop in to
13:36
retire
13:37
yeah yeah dropping in dropping out I
13:40
mean even later on in life I did the
13:43
music for the Olympics recorded the
13:45
music the Olympics in Sydney and that
13:47
was all done on fairlight and then at
13:49
the last minute they decided to extend a
13:53
piece of music for the flags when the
13:56
flags came in that stadium so we had to
13:59
get the orchestra back in and record it
14:01
and the fair lights that all gone out to
14:03
Homebush so the only thing we could
14:05
record it on was was a 48 track machine
14:08
sony digital machine and all the sort of
14:13
tape upstroke Pro Tools operators were
14:15
all sort of scared of this machine and
14:18
so I was dropping in alive 60-piece
14:23
orchestra on this 11 minute piece of
14:25
music and it sort of took me back to
14:28
sort of back then you know when the
14:30
pressure was sort of really on I mean
14:32
now you can record on Pro Tools and if
14:35
you missed the beginning it’s still
14:36
there and you know you can get away with
14:39
murder
14:39
yeah yeah if you’ve just got one reel of
14:42
tape it’s I mean we’re not think back on
14:45
it now we used to you know just put the
14:48
tape in the box and then go home whereas
14:50
now the assistants are there for hours
14:53
doing backups and this and that is there
14:56
any clang as you did when you were
14:57
dropping in and out I mean there was
15:02
there was some vocals I I won’t once a
15:05
song I remember which one it was now but
15:07
these things happened and you know I
15:10
can’t remember anybody getting really
15:12
upset by it but you certainly learn by
15:15
your mistakes I mean you then check
15:17
everything I used to check everything
15:19
before we dropped in they said are we
15:22
gonna drop in on the second verse I used
15:24
to make sure that you know I was in the
15:26
first chorus and all that sort of thing
15:28
so you just check things which which i
15:30
think is very important for any sort of
15:32
kids out there you know yeah check
15:34
everything
15:35
never trust technology and double check
15:38
everything you know but you were working
15:40
those days of course with live drums
15:41
which meant you the mercy of the drummer
15:44
keeping time well that’s right and I
15:47
mean as it turns out
15:49
Ringo was pretty good I mean I saw an
15:52
interview with Charles Martin and he was
15:54
saying when he did the Cirque de Soleil
15:58
he was editing between takes and they
16:01
would the tempo will be exactly the same
16:03
you know whereas whereas a lot of
16:06
drummers speed up and especially in
16:07
chorus is to speed up a little bit and
16:09
then slow down and speed up which is all
16:11
part of life recording but I mean we had
16:14
no clicks in those days we just
16:16
basically went for it you know because
16:18
the the first click is actually a
16:20
metronome so yeah well that’s right I
16:23
mean we had a little metronome bass
16:25
think maybe maybe Ringo have one of
16:28
those going by the side of his drums
16:30
sometimes but I mean he certainly wasn’t
16:32
sort of following it religiously just a
16:35
natural drummer that can play in time
16:38
for quite a period of time you know yeah
16:41
do you remember the first Beatles track
16:43
he worked on it was something on mixing
16:46
and fiddling around with mixing on
16:48
Rubber Soul and then I think the first
16:50
actual recording live stuff was done on
16:54
revolver well they’re my two favorite
16:57
Beatles records I have to say yeah well
16:59
Rubber Soul came out literally just as I
17:01
got to Abbey Road I think the record was
17:04
all recorded but Norman Smith and George
17:07
Martin were fiddling around editing and
17:10
mixing and that kind of stuff so that
17:12
they were working on that when when I
17:15
started work there anyway yeah what were
17:18
the people’s like to work with on a good
17:22
day great yeah a bad day bad like most
17:27
people but they were pretty good I mean
17:30
late later on like on the White Album
17:32
they got a bit sort of tetchy I think
17:35
any band I mean any band that have been
17:37
together for a period of time had gone
17:40
through what they’ve gone through they
17:42
were all into different music brother
17:44
and you know George had his Indian thing
17:46
going you know John had met Yoko he
17:49
wanted to do avant-garde sort of stuff
17:52
so it was kind of hard times but they
17:55
sort of persevered through and
17:59
you know came out with Abbey Road which
18:01
although it’s a great album I think
18:04
there were very few occasions when
18:06
they’re actually all there at the same
18:07
time on that album it was all done in
18:09
bits and pieces I mean by then they’d
18:12
probably 64 files so they’ve been
18:15
recording for three years by then I mean
18:18
the difference with John and John was
18:19
very impatient he wanted to do it very
18:22
quickly and not sort of spend a lot of
18:24
time doing things whereas the other guys
18:26
for the opposite I guess one would say
18:28
yeah Paul was very fastidious and wanted
18:32
you know would do vocals and George were
18:35
two guitars over and over and over again
18:37
till he was at the end so but John John
18:40
was the impatient one so I mean they
18:43
work great as a group and they were
18:45
fabulous I mean there were great
18:47
sessions amongst the debris so what was
18:50
the normal routine of a day if you were
18:51
going in to do a session normal is what
18:54
if you were starting a song whoever
18:57
wrote the song would sort of play it to
19:00
everybody play it to George Martin on
19:03
guitar or piano and then if it was John
19:07
or Paul or John or Paul song they’d
19:09
explain what they were trying to get out
19:11
of it and then when they sort of decide
19:14
what instruments who was gonna play what
19:16
normally nine times out of 10 whoever
19:19
sang it wrote most of it
19:22
so song like Julia for instance was a
19:26
John song and let it be he was a Paul
19:28
song yeah but in amongst all of that
19:32
could well be some lyrics that John
19:34
would write or change they change the
19:37
lyrics along the way so what about the
19:39
setup at the studio though what was the
19:40
what was the true Beatles had two
19:42
roadies Mel and Neal who set all the
19:45
amps up and there’d be drums with a
19:47
little screens round towards the end
19:50
bass was quite often done last of all
19:53
finally enough I mean Paul would quite
19:56
often play piano and do a rough vocal
19:59
and so quite often it wasn’t bass drums
20:02
guitar it would actually be sort of
20:04
piano guitar two guitars piano and drums
20:08
so sounds weird to imagine now but
20:11
that’s kind of how we
20:13
their early albums was just all done
20:15
live and then they might overtop a
20:17
tambourine or guitar solo or something
20:20
like that and so that was done very
20:23
clear I mean their first album was done
20:24
in the day so she said it quite amazing
20:27
when you think of it now isn’t it what
20:28
it is now I mean now they can’t even get
20:31
the bloody counting down in the day let
20:33
alone no it’s a different world it is
20:36
it’s funny because I was talking to the
20:37
guy I mentioned the other day Chris
20:39
Dickey is it made of mind
20:40
yeah a track and he one of his comments
20:43
was that he felt that Pro Tools has made
20:47
everybody defer making a decision
20:49
exactly I mean I mean just
20:51
decision-making actually pushes Ashley
20:53
moves you along pushes you along puts
20:56
pressure on getting it right and I
20:59
wouldn’t have it any other way
21:00
actually I just hate this deciding down
21:04
the track you know it’s just silly it
21:07
should be decided there and then okay
21:09
we’re moving on now like a writing a
21:12
book and sort of doing it all out of
21:14
order and just running all of the pages
21:16
and then try to sort it out and you’ve
21:18
got to kind of you know figure it out
21:20
beforehand it’s gonna be a bit of a plan
21:23
but that’s kind of how things are done
21:25
now it’s very frustrating you know I
21:27
can’t work like that it drives me crazy
21:30
yeah but it’s funny you know because
21:32
that that is the world now that is the
21:34
world apart from a few people I think
21:38
Nashville is one place where they
21:40
actually get a whole rhythm session in
21:42
together and they can all play together
21:44
I mean there’s a few artists that do
21:47
that though it’s only old geezers and
21:50
maybe the white stripes there’s a few
21:53
few kind of bands around that like to
21:56
record life so but is I mean it’s all a
21:58
part of a performance you know I mean I
22:01
thought it funny I was watching the
22:03
Eurovision Song Contest the other week
22:05
and how many of those singers just
22:07
couldn’t sing they were so out of tune
22:09
and it just goes to show you how how Pro
22:12
Tools is sort of you know you want to
22:15
make a record
22:16
oh you can’t sing that doesn’t matter we
22:18
can fix it for you whereas back then if
22:21
you couldn’t sing you didn’t make a
22:22
record yeah exactly and it was all done
22:25
live
22:26
in everything at Abbey Road definitely
22:28
sort of 65 612 64 65 66 started to get
22:34
into for track but everything was a
22:38
performance you know and it was a singer
22:40
with an orchestra it was singer with the
22:43
band singing life The Hollies would do
22:46
records singing live Graham or Alan
22:49
would sing life with the band and then
22:52
they do harmonies
22:53
guitar solo and there that was done you
22:55
know they would they were very good
22:57
vocals yeah when they blend I mean that
23:00
I mean they particularly were a great
23:01
glad to people but there’s a bit of
23:03
excitement on the record and that’s kind
23:05
of what’s missing there everything so
23:07
sort of calculated that there’s just no
23:10
assignment you know you’re it’s hard to
23:12
get excitement when you’ve got a you
23:14
know click track going and there’s not a
23:16
whole lot of people performing and
23:18
working off each other you know which
23:21
what all those records were but the the
23:23
other thing is a lot of people work
23:24
remotely as well now so you get some
23:26
well that’s right yeah doing something
23:28
one even they’re not the country yeah
23:30
totally I mean I mean the last cliff and
23:32
the shadows album I think Hank was here
23:34
eighties guitars here Bruce and Brian
23:38
did the tracks in England and cliff sang
23:41
it in America yeah it was kind of done
23:43
all over the place when you hear it kind
23:46
of sounds a bit like that you know it’s
23:48
not got the vibe that they once that
23:50
they would get in the studio and and and
23:53
you could never recreate that
23:54
that’s why live concerts if the singer
23:57
can sing is so good to go and see you
23:59
know there was a job posted at Abbey
24:01
Road for someone to head to Australia
24:03
and you put your hand up for it
24:06
yeah I didn’t initially I didn’t
24:08
initially I just saw I I mean we all
24:10
thought it was really funny you know we
24:12
thought oh my god he’d go there I mean
24:14
at the time I’d work with quite a few
24:17
well cliffs manager for a start was
24:19
Australian there was a few musicians
24:22
that were in England at the time that
24:24
were Australian so I had you know work
24:26
with quite a few people from Sydney and
24:29
Melbourne and I think I decided mum
24:33
thought it would be a good idea I
24:35
thought maybe yeah it’ll be a change it
24:37
was only for two years so all that
24:39
go pretty quickly so to the Sun I came
24:42
yes indeed and that that was to set up
24:44
here my studios in Sidney’s that EMI in
24:47
Sydney yeah I had a kind of a two-year
24:49
contract with them and bit of a shock
24:52
when I first got in realized you had to
24:55
engineer and work the tape machine
24:56
yourself but that was life yes I tried
25:01
to go back to being at a pop again spent
25:04
the last of many years three years being
25:07
an engineer and now I’m back being at a
25:09
pop but you kind of did both so what was
25:13
the studio like in comparison with um a
25:15
beer it was pretty good I mean they just
25:17
got delivery of a new console it wasn’t
25:20
as big as the console we had at Abbey
25:23
Road but it was okay there was a kind of
25:26
a dodgy console in one of the studios
25:29
and a new console in in the main street
25:32
or the the big studio at EMI so I did a
25:36
lot of my stuff there and we had 16
25:39
tracks Tudor which was good yeah it was
25:42
it was a pretty good situation there’s
25:45
some quite good mics there again not as
25:47
many and the choice wasn’t as good as at
25:51
Abbey Road but we sort of got by I work
25:55
with some interesting people I’d sort of
25:57
did some stuff with George and Harry
26:00
from the Easybeats was one of the first
26:02
things I did and I mean the sounds were
26:06
different I remember the snare
26:07
particularly the snare you know there’s
26:09
a session drummer at the time oh she’s
26:11
just saw I love that snare sound that
26:13
European snare sound Richard can you get
26:16
that you know and he had a snare that
26:18
was tuned so high that you know you and
26:21
I said we have to tune that down a
26:24
couple of octaves to get that sound or I
26:26
can’t do that so what do you won’t get
26:29
the deep sound it’s not a bloody
26:31
miracles you know I’m not a miracle
26:32
worker and he sort of didn’t quite
26:35
understand that you had to chain it down
26:37
to get a deep sound so I guess the
26:40
Aussie drum sound had a kind of unique
26:43
sound that was the one thing I did
26:45
notice it’s also a budget thing as well
26:47
because you can you know I guess I mean
26:50
yeah I mean here
26:51
records were made a lot quicker than
26:53
what they were at the time in England I
26:56
mean at the time in every road one would
26:58
spend maybe three weeks or a month doing
27:01
records whereas here when I initially
27:03
came he was kind of like going back a
27:06
little way in time as far as speed and
27:09
everything but you know it wasn’t
27:11
archaic by any means but it wasn’t quite
27:14
the cutting edge of Abbey Road yeah well
27:16
you had one huge success which was
27:19
sherbet how’s that which became a top
27:21
ten in in year number one here yes well
27:24
actually took quite a while to do I mean
27:26
that took about a couple of months I
27:28
mean I probably spend more time on that
27:30
than any album I’d done here full stop I
27:34
mean fortunately had some great songs on
27:36
it so it was just as well we did you
27:38
know 2007 you did the new version of
27:41
sergeant Pepper’s with yes yeah I’m sort
27:44
of been I went back and had a really fun
27:47
time doing that and unfortunately never
27:50
came out as a record which was a track I
27:52
mean it was originally going to be just
27:55
a radio program so that’s that was the
27:57
original idea and then somebody said oh
28:00
we should really film it because you
28:03
know you never know what’s gonna happen
28:04
so they started to film it then the BBC
28:08
sort of said no you know having any more
28:10
money so we kind of finished the radio
28:14
program and some artists didn’t get
28:17
filmed and then they were trying to get
28:19
a record deal and it just all became too
28:22
hard so unfortunately a lot of it sort
28:24
of it ended up being a bit of an
28:26
underground help yeah but it was we
28:29
really had fun doing it a lot of fun
28:31
doing it you got any good stories from
28:33
that oh so when you start exactly when
28:38
you start well it was quite funny one of
28:40
the bands and I can’t remember which
28:42
band but they they thought they were
28:45
doing the opening to pepper the the the
28:48
first thing on pepper but they were
28:51
doing the reprise and they sort of came
28:53
in and they’d learnt that and they were
28:56
terrific in the end I mean they didn’t
28:58
sort of spit the dummy or anything they
29:00
came over to me and I said oh no we did
29:03
that yesterday
29:04
we did that yesterday with Bryan Adams
29:08
now you’re you’re doing the reprise oh
29:11
well they told us we were doing the the
29:13
opening that’s what we’ve learned
29:15
I said well you better go get a CD and
29:17
learn the so they were very cool they
29:21
were very cool about it and they also
29:24
worked with Oasis on that who have
29:26
always made claim that yeah well that
29:27
well that was that was interesting
29:31
almost like you completed Beatles cover
29:33
band well that was very interesting and
29:36
one of my regrets in life is goes with
29:39
that story but they they basically
29:42
wanted to record at Abbey Road with the
29:46
same console that it would have been
29:48
done on originally well the only person
29:51
that’s got one in England is Mark
29:53
Knopfler he didn’t want to hire it out
29:56
because that’s in his studio
29:57
Glenny Kravitz has got one in New York
30:00
so 50,000 phone calls went on and
30:04
basically his engineer came over with
30:06
this console at great expense to the
30:09
management and we set it up at Abbey
30:11
Road and off we went
30:14
I mean it was done very quickly the
30:16
track was done very quickly and the two
30:19
brothers never spoke and it was very
30:23
strange but anyway Wow oh I will now all
30:26
do it now I’ll just no kind of produced
30:28
it I guess but it was great and then at
30:30
the end of it we all read a beer and
30:32
talks about this and that I was going
30:34
out with a friend of mine and they said
30:36
I’d you want to come to the pub for a
30:38
few drinks I didn’t go unfortunately
30:40
exactly I think it would have been quite
30:42
funny yeah and I spoke to the doorman
30:45
the day after and he said are they came
30:48
back about nine o’clock and just played
30:52
in the studio Beatles songs for about an
30:54
hour and a half and then went home I’m
30:56
sorry I missed your door yeah anyway
30:58
roll the tape over yeah that’s right and
31:02
that’s that’s life yeah cuz I saw a
31:04
photograph and I don’t know whether it
31:05
was from that period or not but it was
31:07
sent to me by a mutual acquaintance of
31:10
ours
31:10
Roy it’s a photograph of Paul Weller and
31:12
Noel Gallagher yeah Paul was
31:15
Paul came in yeah and I was standing
31:17
there looking over and it was Geoff
31:18
Emerick was there and I yeah I’m just
31:21
wondering if that was you in that photo
31:22
as well we were all there somewhere yeah
31:25
but Paul came in yeah Paul came in to
31:27
listen to stuff with his daughter I
31:30
think and yeah it was a fun day and it
31:34
was done very quickly I think now all
31:36
turned around and said oh yeah I shot
31:38
the wife I’d be home about our past 9:00
31:40
but it’s only 7 o’clock what am I gonna
31:43
do LS Rome a decided to can’t have a
31:47
drink and then you know make it a bit of
31:50
a normal session yeah probably time
31:52
about midnight so what’s your best
31:55
memory or best story of working at Abbey
31:57
Road well I guess the most satisfaction
31:59
was probably that the night of all you
32:02
need is love I guess I mean those two to
32:05
big session one was that and one was
32:07
day-in-the-life the orchestra for that
32:09
and they were both done in the same
32:10
studio those were kind of the most
32:13
memorable sessions I guess because they
32:16
were sort of so unusual and and there
32:20
was a lot of pressure and it was all
32:22
done live and it was very rewarding I
32:25
guess I mean it was rewarding night that
32:29
was you know there was like a hundred
32:30
million people listening but there was a
32:32
lot of pressure doing it you know and
32:35
there’s probably other things that I’ll
32:36
think about once we finished yes he will
32:40
if you had a choice give one the clock
32:43
back and someone said you can work at
32:46
Capitol Records recording Frank
32:48
signature all the Beatles what would you
32:51
pick jars well I guess you’d pick the
32:53
one you didn’t do yeah yeah I mean I
33:00
would love to have been a man I’ve got a
33:02
Sinatra little box set and I just bought
33:05
and then looking at the pictures of that
33:07
and I’ve been to Capitol and walk down
33:09
the corridor and been to the studio so
33:11
it’s kind of the same as happy Road
33:14
people who go to happy road and walk
33:16
down the corridor and see the pictures
33:19
go WOW you know that was done here and
33:21
Wow
33:22
the same thing is a Capitol room you
33:24
know they got Nat King Cole Dean Martin
33:26
Frank beachboys saying
33:29
I mean it’s it’s sort of interesting
33:31
that each country had one studio where
33:35
most of the stuff from the 60s was
33:38
recorded yes true isn’t that’s quite
33:40
bizarre when you think about it now yeah
33:42
it’s I mean basically Capital did all of
33:45
Nat King Cole stuff to nearly all of the
33:48
Sinatra stuff some of it was done at a
33:51
place called United sound or United
33:54
recorders but most of the stuff was done
33:57
at Capitol
33:58
they’re both institutions and they’re
34:00
still going which is amazing yeah I
34:02
remember there was actually here was a
34:04
Joe Jackson record done years and years
34:06
ago yes but that was at Radio City but
34:09
he recorded it live as they would have
34:12
done so staggering oh yeah that was done
34:14
in New York yeah yeah yeah but it was a
34:18
different way of recording because
34:19
they’re louder the instrument the
34:20
further back away from the mic yeah well
34:23
that’s it I mean I did a film once and
34:25
somebody’s Salar just want to record it
34:26
on one might just want to record it in
34:29
mono it’s just for a soundtrack you know
34:32
it was only a sort of short film 11
34:34
minutes of music and we can’t have did
34:37
it like that yeah and it was sort of
34:40
interesting way you put the mic and what
34:42
you picked up on it I think we ended up
34:45
having the mic a couple of feet from the
34:47
piano and we had the sort of brass and
34:50
woodwinds kind of sitting in a
34:52
semi-circle pretty much like how you
34:54
would a capital the only thing you
34:56
didn’t pick up that great was the bass
34:59
and I think I actually cheated and said
35:01
look we’ve got acoustic bass can I just
35:03
put a mic in that corner and so I was
35:07
actually done on two mics but looking at
35:10
the old photographs of Sinatra working
35:12
with the orchestra at Capitol it’s quite
35:15
amazing well he insisted on being in the
35:18
room not being in a booth and when they
35:20
came back al Schmidt told me when they
35:24
came back to do the duets
35:26
he said I want to do it like and we did
35:29
it back there now I want to stand in the
35:31
room you know now said well they’ll bill
35:33
this spill and everything and Frank said
35:36
sorry I’ve got to be in the room you
35:38
know and now it finds nothing to you
35:40
just hear and hear the orchestra as of
35:42
the
35:43
is yeah yeah it’s great Oh fantastic
35:46
okay before we end this obviously one
35:49
question I’m sure everybody that knows
35:51
anything about the Beatles wants to know
35:53
the answer to and it’s two people’s
35:55
names ones you know holding glory and
35:59
one is far from that and that’s George
36:01
Martin and Yoko Ono yeah have you got
36:04
these are two people that were one of
36:08
course is Yoko that everybody you know
36:10
accuses of breaking up the Beatles no I
36:14
found her okay now I did the first John
36:17
Lennon now the solo album and you know
36:20
Kay kind of spent most of the time in
36:23
the control room with or without Phil
36:25
Spector so it was kind of an interesting
36:27
combination and I found her all right I
36:31
mean she had some crazy ideas you know
36:33
sometimes she beat just told to be quiet
36:36
and off we went and but I mean I never
36:40
found her a distraction in the studio
36:44
but in saying that girl friends came to
36:47
sessions not all the time whereas she
36:51
wouldn’t let John go anywhere she would
36:53
follow him you know he go to the toilet
36:56
she would come up the stairs and sit
36:59
outside you know there’s a strange sight
37:02
Wow
37:03
but then he come out and they both got
37:07
back go back down again so that so they
37:09
were kind of inseparable and that I
37:11
guess because he’s been in the band
37:13
together for that period of time and
37:15
it’s you and basically the only other
37:19
people were the roadies and us that
37:21
somebody else coming in was a bit
37:23
upsetting for them yeah so I wouldn’t go
37:27
as far as to say she broke the Beatles
37:29
up but she caused a little bit of being
37:33
a tension there that probably wouldn’t
37:35
have been there had she not been yeah
37:37
and the other person is who has called
37:41
the fifth Beatle is George Martin
37:43
uncle George we used to call him he’s so
37:47
old and it’s amazing hindsight you know
37:52
we look back now I mean I was 18 Geoff
37:56
was twin
37:56
George was 38 McCartney was 25 I think
38:03
25 I mean it’s sort of frightening Eve
38:07
even the Beatles thought he was sort of
38:10
so old and he was 38 now his sons older
38:14
than him older than he was I mean it’s
38:17
very weird yeah but I mean a lot of the
38:20
records wouldn’t wouldn’t have ended up
38:22
as they did without George’s influence I
38:25
mean he was he was a great help doing
38:28
your harmonies coming up the ideas doing
38:31
stuff you know half speed piano all
38:34
these various things we did but he was a
38:36
bit of a you know I did everything that
38:38
was the only shame about it all is that
38:41
he didn’t sort of share a lot of the
38:43
credit along the way and Geoff and I
38:46
kind of feel the same thing about that
38:49
but anyway that’s it’s the way it has
38:53
gone so you don’t have anything to do
38:55
with any oh no there was a 75th party at
39:01
Abbey Road and Geoff didn’t go but I I
39:04
went from here Marcin Benj who used to
39:07
work in a bureau too used to manage
39:09
Abbey Road we both went over and they
39:12
had this amazing party in number one or
39:14
you need his love was done I thought I
39:16
was gonna be a whole lot of sort of
39:18
dropkick singers and bands and whatever
39:21
and it was just basically for staff and
39:23
it was terrific
39:24
and there was engineers that I hadn’t
39:27
seen Norman Smith was there he’s in
39:29
Drecker he didn’t recognise me didn’t
39:31
recall me at all which is very strange
39:33
he passed away about a year after there
39:37
was a whole lot of engineers I haven’t
39:39
seen and the only people that were there
39:41
other than engineers were George Martin
39:46
and Yoko and Charles and George’s wife
39:51
so so he had a bit of a chat and he
39:55
blamed me for being deaf he rings it was
39:59
my fault tell me where you get that idea
40:04
from because you were sitting by the
40:06
volume pot you were nearer to the volume
40:08
pot that I was you know
40:10
see the reasoning net yes and so now
40:15
maybe it was good and so that was the
40:17
last time I saw him but it was it was it
40:20
was a good night so you have great
40:22
memories of the Beatles I do have good
40:24
memories yeah yeah and do you do you see
40:27
them the way a lot of people see them
40:29
historically that as as big as they they
40:32
are and as influential as they yes yes I
40:36
do because I can remember when we finish
40:38
pepper I mean everybody that worked on
40:41
it everybody who had anything to do on
40:43
it with anything and that’s the Beatles
40:46
and well I guess the five out for other
40:49
people whatever it is one two five other
40:52
people that worked on it apart from the
40:54
technical people must have left leave
40:57
them out we’re all very proud of it when
41:00
it was finished and we all couldn’t wait
41:02
for people to hear it you know because
41:04
we spent so long doing it spent like
41:07
three months or something doing this
41:09
record or even longer than that it went
41:11
on and on and on it was good to get it
41:14
released and see the reaction to it all
41:17
these years later people still you know
41:19
well how did you do that because we had
41:22
to make decisions
41:23
yes exactly we had to make decisions I
41:27
mean that’s it you know I get tape ops
41:29
now though Pro Tools operators now that
41:32
asked me yeah do you want to keep that I
41:34
said no I didn’t want to keep it we
41:37
wouldn’t be redoing it you know they
41:39
keep hundreds of these bad takes which
41:42
is a total waste of time
41:43
yeah you’ve just got to get one good one
41:46
I mean I know you do depend on the
41:48
singer but you have to coax that out of
41:51
the singer you know and fixing up a load
41:54
of bad takes isn’t my idea of making a
41:57
record you know but that seems to be the
42:00
way now indeed
42:01
now this is a really random question to
42:04
finish off have you ever worked on a
42:05
voice-over session I have yes I worked
42:09
at songs that I worked with them for
42:11
about oh gosh probably about five years
42:14
and we had a music studio and a
42:17
voiceover studio I die the I works in
42:20
the music studio but every now and then
42:23
I had to do voiceovers and I didn’t
42:28
particularly enjoy doing them but that’s
42:32
not the answer we’re looking for
42:34
but then then in the end I was amusing
42:38
yeah and I could remember when I first
42:42
came to EMI bill Ramsey the manager of
42:45
the studio sort of took me around and
42:47
showed me their voiceover studio and he
42:50
said I’ll you’ll never be in here
42:52
Richard don’t even think about it well
42:54
about three weeks later I was in there
42:57
doing a voiceover you know trying to fly
43:00
in vinyl you know yeah it’s like a
43:02
nightmare I mean it’s easier doing a
43:05
50-piece Orchestra than doing a
43:06
voiceover flying in you know duck and
43:10
cow effects over a bloke talking you
43:12
know but people that people that do
43:17
voiceovers do it standing on there on
43:19
the head you know I mean I mean when I
43:21
say I don’t like doing voiceovers it’s
43:24
not my cup of tea but on hearing stuff
43:28
that’s on television now I’d soar wonder
43:31
where they what’s going on there I mean
43:33
some of the voiceovers are here on
43:35
station IDs that the balance and the
43:38
sound of the voiceover sounds shocking
43:40
so I I don’t know what mics they’re
43:42
using it’s kind of the same as a singer
43:44
really I mean the voice is king you know
43:47
he’s the most important thing and
43:49
everything else has got a sit with it
43:51
sometimes you know you have to Riku it a
43:54
bit differently or or get a different
43:57
voice you know if you’ve got this huge
43:59
track and they they hire some sort of
44:03
nancy-boy to do the voice-over you know
44:06
it’s never gonna work yes it’s the same
44:09
in music you know if you’ve got a little
44:10
nylon guitar playing over ac/dc never
44:15
gonna cut through so it’s kind of over
44:17
there everything’s that audio is the
44:19
same it’s sort of matching everything up
44:21
and what works and what doesn’t work
44:23
and I think there’s a lot of voiceover
44:25
stuff now that I hear that sort of
44:27
disturbs me if they’re on television and
44:29
it’s kind of a different it’s a
44:31
different mindset you know and sometimes
44:34
I’d actually mix so far
44:36
cocaine or something like that that I
44:38
done the music for and somebody else
44:40
would record the voice over it but then
44:42
it will come to me for for mixing and
44:45
you’d have to keep writing it you know
44:46
it’s writing the voice because the only
44:49
other thing to do is to keep pulling the
44:51
music down you know which isn’t or not
44:54
isn’t the object yeah usually hear stuff
44:57
on air now you think whoa it’s done this
45:00
it is it is hard it’s hard to do yeah so
45:04
if you had one vocal microphone only one
45:07
you could have and this is gonna be the
45:09
last question I promise if there was one
45:11
vocal microphone what would it be
45:13
47 nice or a 67 I’ve got a favorite at
45:20
67 in Sydney then I used the 301 that I
45:24
use on singers and it sounds great
45:26
but a 47 is is can’t I did a I hadn’t
45:31
used one for about 20 years and I used
45:35
one on some shocking ad for the girls
45:39
singer on it and I just looked at the vu
45:41
meter when I put this mic out and it
45:44
didn’t really need limiting didn’t need
45:46
compressing the whole vocal sat there
45:50
within a 3 DB dynamic range and I
45:55
thought wow this mic is the business you
45:58
know yeah and I just put a little bit of
46:01
limiting on it a little bit of
46:02
compression and but it sounded so loud
46:05
this is the thing with microphones you
46:09
know you can put four microphones on a
46:11
singer and you put them all to 0 but the
46:15
47 will jump out of the speaker and
46:17
you’re consequently you can have so much
46:20
more music behind it with a good mind
46:23
than than if you just say 57 or
46:27
something you just wouldn’t get the
46:29
volume on the voice
46:31
so the 47 is brilliant so anybody
46:35
listening starts say to help your
46:36
pennies serving up your pennies even a
46:39
fat 47 pretty nice to have and I think
46:44
them they’re I mean they’re making all
46:45
these again but they’re not quite the
46:47
same as the original
46:49
yeah because a little bit of distortion
46:51
on it which is all part of the sound I
46:54
think which would be good for a singer
46:56
but probably not so good for a voiceover
46:58
yeah I think yeah it is but it’s it just
47:02
gives you a lot of volume yeah put it
47:05
2-0 on every year made another peak
47:07
later and it just looks so better on a
47:11
vu meter than a lot of other things are
47:14
all peaky in various frequencies but the
47:17
47 just looks great yeah sounds great
47:20
looks great Richard lush it’s been a
47:23
pleasure and I hope we talk again very
47:26
soon okay
47:27
so I sat down the other day and I had 20
47:31
minutes to kill before I had to do a
47:33
remote voice session and I was flicking
47:37
through the internet and I watched a
47:39
waves tutorial on the Abbey Road reverb
47:43
chamber they’ve got a plug-in where
47:45
they’ve they’ve modeled the the reverb
47:47
chambers part of the video was actually
47:49
showing the reverb chambers and all that
47:51
sort of stuff and for someone who sort
47:54
of didn’t ever worked in that era but
47:56
had an idea of reverb chambers and bar
47:58
barbar to actually see it for the first
47:59
time it’s quite incredible going back to
48:03
what we were talking about the show
48:04
about the sounds they pulled when you
48:07
think that really the reverb chamber was
48:09
just two speakers stuck in a tiled room
48:10
and moving the microphone backwards and
48:12
forwards to to get those different
48:14
sounds it’s pretty incredible really
48:16
absolutely yeah and and studios were
48:19
known for their chambers I think bear
48:21
tracks bear tracks in New York had a
48:24
barn silo that was one of their reverb
48:27
chambers I wonder who sat in scratch
48:28
they hate and win
48:29
let’s tile a room stick a speaker in it
48:33
somebody went to the bathroom during a
48:35
session yeah and I was sitting on the
48:38
loo and went oh good idea like I want to
48:41
know who first taped a microphone to a
48:44
wall behind the drum kit and went let’s
48:46
record that you know that’s that’s
48:48
pretty clever stuff drug use lots of
48:50
drugs yeah I don’t know I I recorded a
48:52
band I remember one time I recorded a
48:54
band and the the studio had like when
48:58
those lobbies it was you know had marble
49:01
floors and everything
49:02
and the drummer was practicing and they
49:04
walked through the lobby when he was
49:06
practicing and he was so damn loud even
49:08
though he was in a soundproof room it
49:09
didn’t matter he was just like filling
49:10
this Lobby up and everyone going wow
49:13
that’s really cool and sometimes like
49:15
when you’re recording things you’re just
49:16
like I don’t know if I’m going to use it
49:18
but stick a microphone there and we did
49:22
and we ended up using it and it was like
49:23
this like slappy like crazy reverb and
49:27
sometimes you’re just looking for unique
49:28
sounds and if you’re one of those people
49:31
that like every time you hear something
49:32
like did you hear that oh look at that
49:35
oh wow look at the sound this thing
49:36
makes yeah so yeah that’s how it
49:38
happened yeah yeah that’d be fun well it
49:41
was the whole thing in Abbey Road that
49:42
changed the way that drums are recorded
49:44
so when mm-hmm there you go and see
49:46
someone whose compression almost got no
49:48
moving the moving the mic closer to the
49:50
kick drum that was a fireable offense at
49:53
EMI Abbey Road luckily they didn’t get
49:57
fired and now it’s I was just considered
50:01
to direct or to possibly damaging the
50:05
microphone where I am it’s the dawn
50:07
friend the microphone yeah there’s a
50:11
story of Geoff Emerick I think talking
50:13
about how when they when they wanted to
50:15
use the Fairchild and they had to like
50:17
get permission for it and these guys
50:20
with like you know white coats roll the
50:22
Fairchild in on a cart like okay what
50:26
are you using this for and of course
50:28
they’re using it for like drum
50:28
compression and that’s how you get that
50:30
crazy long sustain and the cymbals in in
50:33
Sergeant Pepper
50:35
you know like at the end of Dana life
50:36
and stuff like that and but yeah they
50:40
were using things for not necessarily
50:42
how maybe not how they were designed but
50:45
how people perceive they were supposed
50:46
to be used and that was all the creative
50:48
use of compression where that started
50:50
hmm well you tell me that’s deceiving
50:53
rolling in the Machine it makes me think
50:55
of another British hitter hit artist
50:57
monty python bringing the machine that
51:01
goes be expensive machine
51:09
yes all right well there goes another
51:12
one we should wish you all season’s
51:14
greetings absolutely may Santa deliver
51:17
some wonderful gear under your tree and
51:19
stay safe
51:20
stacks headphones yes hello mr. stacks
51:24
if you listening yeah
51:25
Sydney Australia thank you look out I’m
51:28
hungry I don’t care are they can go the
51:30
Peluso
51:30
p41 for right that would be so bad
51:33
that’d be nice it like oh are you 67
51:37
anyway on that note see ya bye that was
51:40
the pro audio suite if you have any
51:43
questions or ideas for a show let us
51:45
know via our Facebook the pro audio
51:48
suite podcast
51:53
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